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Onderwerp: Elector Networker
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eriksl 481 berichten Expert	16-02-2011 15:57 De Elector Networker is op heel zich heel interessant voor wat ik wil doen, er zijn alleen een paar kleine dingen waardoor ik 'm uiteindelijk niet kan gebruiken. Misschien dat er een keer een versie 2.0 kan komen? Wat ik graag wil is dat AL die mooie I/O poorten van de microntroller als GPIO's naar buiten worden gevoerd, zodat ik meerdere analoge inputs heb en meerdere PWM outputs. Nu wordt daar gewoon niks mee gedaan. En dan uiteraard ook support vanuit de software daarvoor. Ik las dat PWM op het moment zowiezo nog niet gesupport wordt, dat begrijp ik niet? Het lijkt me een kwestie van een of twee registers van een paar bits voorzien? Wat ook erg praktisch zou zijn, is een paar opamps om de analoge inputs te ontkoppelen en met een potmeter van een variable gain te voorzien, dat hoeft volgens mij bijna niks te kosten. Het liefst zou ik de outputs uiteraard ook met wat "power" zien, bijvoorbeeld met TIP120's, open collector, maar dat is misschien niet voor iedereen even interessant. Ze kunnen natuurlijk optioneel gemaakt worden... Zou zou het boardje met een paar euro extra echt interessant worden!
petrus bitbyter 622 berichten Expert	16-02-2011 17:00 Om te beginnen zou het wel handig zijn om bij een vraag over een onderwerp het desbetreffende Elektuur nummer te vermelden. Als op dit forum dan ook nog de Nederlandse titel gebruikt wordt, is het voor de lezers al een stuk makkelijker te bezien waar het over gaat. De vraag zelf is al lastig genoeg te beantwoorden. Zoals met heel veel ontwerpen is ook dit niet door Elektor zelf gebouwd maar door een externe auteur. Er is eenvoudig niet genoeg capaciteit in huis om een uitbreiding te ontwerpen. Blijven drie mogelijkheden: 1. Niets doen. Gebeurt er ook niks. 2. Zelf doen. Dat vraagt in elk geval het ontwerpen van een andere PCB. Als je (ook) alle nu niet aangesloten pennen wilt kunnen gebruiken, wordt de print niet alleen groter het is ook de vraag of je nog met een dubbelzijdige print toe kunt. Het ontwerpen van een multilayer is niet duurder dan dat van een dubbelzijdige print. De productie wel. Vervolgens moet de software uitgebreid worden. De kosten (tijd) daarvan zijn helemaal afhankelijk van de gewenste toepassing. De bestaande source code is in elk geval een goede opstap. 3. Contact opnemen met de auteur. Onder aan in het artikel is daartoe zijn adres vermeld. Maar of die bereid is dat extra stuk inspanning te leveren? Misschien als je zijn rekening betaald petrus bitbyter Bericht bewerkt door petrus bitbyter op 16-02-2011 17:22 Bericht bewerkt door petrus bitbyter op 16-02-2011 17:23
Arjen H. 1159 berichten Expert¹	17-02-2011 00:21 petrus bitbyterOm te beginnen zou het wel handig zijn om bij een vraag over een onderwerp het desbetreffende Elektuur nummer te vermelden. Als op dit forum dan ook nog de Nederlandse titel gebruikt wordt, is het voor de lezers al een stuk makkelijker te bezien waar het over gaat. Netwerker, December 2010.
svesch 11 berichten Op bezoek	17-02-2011 12:26 Hi Erik, something is always missing... Indead there a lot more controller pins. In fact the design is a compromise of IO count, usability, board space and cost. Missing pins can be added via the powerful SPI or I2C interface (recently implemented). There are lot of powerful ADCs and DACs out there for such applications. The Netzer breakout board will come with some of this features (available in one or two months). Also the development of Netzer 2.0 is already in progress with focus on more computing power and more IOs. The missing software features PWM and ADC are missing, because I have not got any feedback, yet. Until today there was no need for this features or everybody implements it by itself... There also is something more to do than simple configuring some registers - the configuration via the web interface takes also time and so on. Support is welcome (with own work or payments) and will speed up the progress. Best regards, Sven Schlender ---- The Netzer project: http://www.mobacon.de/Netzer edit: url tags added... Bericht bewerkt door Arjen H. op 17-02-2011 22:58
eriksl 481 berichten Expert	17-02-2011 16:05 svesch something is always missing... That's what feedback is good for svesch Indead there a lot more controller pins. In fact the design is a compromise of IO count, usability, board space and cost. I can understand that. I was hoping enough other people would be interested in a more extended version to make it interesting to design such a version. svesch Missing pins can be added via the powerful SPI or I2C interface (recently implemented). There are lot of powerful ADCs and DACs out there for such applications. The Netzer breakout board will come with some of this features (available in one or two months). Actually I wouldn't even mind connecting the pins myself, but I fear I would not be able to control the pins from the software, so it's useless... The same goes for SPI and I2C, what if I buy some ADC/DAC/IO IC with I2C or SPI connection, would it even be supported by the software?! And fwiw I think it's a waste to not use many of the features of this MCU. Also I can't remember having seen I2C IC's that can generate PWM signals. Also the development of Netzer 2.0 is already in progress with focus on more computing power and more IOs. OK, I'll have a look. I was under the impression this was an elector project. The missing software features PWM and ADC are missing, because I have not got any feedback, yet. Until today there was no need for this features or everybody implements it by itself... I would be willing to do that, I am quite fluent in machine code and C, but I have no experience in microcontrollers whatsoever and also I would rather not have to buy all sorts of programmers. If there is any "windows-only" tool required, that's definitely a showstopper because I am not using windows. There also is something more to do than simple configuring some registers - the configuration via the web interface takes also time and so on. The datasheet mentions "PWM outputs". That means to me the PWM is completely generated by the MCU itself. If not, then I wouldn't call it a "PWM output", more a GPIO output. Support is welcome (with own work or payments) and will speed up the progress. I'll have a look. Thanks. Bericht bewerkt door eriksl op 17-02-2011 16:07 Bericht bewerkt door eriksl op 17-02-2011 16:08
svesch 11 berichten Op bezoek	17-02-2011 21:05 Hi Eric, do not know how to quote here, I use mail style instead. > Actually I wouldn't even mind connecting the pins myself, but I > fear I would not be able to control the pins from the software, so > it's useless... Ok, but why do you ask for more IOs than? > The same goes for SPI and I2C, what if I buy some > ADC/DAC/IO IC with I2C or SPI connection, would it even be > supported by the software?! Well, it depends. You can write a Socket-Based TCP/IP application on the OS and in the programming language you like. Simple connect to the serial socket in SPI or I2C mode. The driver runs completly on your PC and no Netzer firmware upgrade is necessary. > Also I can't remember having seen I2C IC's that can generate > PWM signals. PCA9685 for example. > The datasheet mentions "PWM outputs". That means to me the > PWM is completely generated by the MCU itself. If not, then I > wouldn't call it a "PWM output", more a GPIO output. I mean the hardware PWM. But you can configure it for different frequencies and bit widths and here the webdesign must offer an adequate configuration. Best regards, Sven Schlender
Arjen H. 1159 berichten Expert¹	17-02-2011 22:45 sveschdo not know how to quote here, I use mail style instead. Instead of creating a new message you can "quote" a message. The complete message is quoted. In a message you can add some quoted text by selecting the text to quote and click the Quote button. You can manually add quoted text by adding the quote tags. [ quote=xxx ]text to quote[ /quote ] (do not type the spaces!). In the mean time I am also interested in this subject. It has been mentioned before, some more I/O would be appreciated. I would also be interested in a sample PC application (C# .net) to be able to control the networker(s). If I had some time at the moment I would help engineering and testing... unfortunately it isn't... but I will be tracking this thread... Bericht bewerkt door Arjen H. op 17-02-2011 22:45 Bericht bewerkt door Arjen H. op 17-02-2011 22:56
eriksl 481 berichten Expert	21-02-2011 15:14 sveschHi Eric, > Actually I wouldn't even mind connecting the pins myself, but I > fear I would not be able to control the pins from the software, so > it's useless... Ok, but why do you ask for more IOs than? Because I also need to be able to control the I/O pins! The software needs to support them. > The same goes for SPI and I2C, what if I buy some > ADC/DAC/IO IC with I2C or SPI connection, would it even be > supported by the software?! Well, it depends. You can write a Socket-Based TCP/IP application on the OS and in the programming language you like. Simple connect to the serial socket in SPI or I2C mode. The driver runs completly on your PC and no Netzer firmware upgrade is necessary. That is not what I mean. Any ip interface on the networker is fine for me, I will write an interface around it, be it raw udp, tcp or http, doesn't matter. The problem I am foreseeing is that the software (firmware, as you like) on the networker itself is not able to: control the fysical pins that are not (yet) connected and: control the remote I/O IC's (like I2C en SPI). If the http interface would support (which I doubt) a trick to read/write hardware registers of the MCU (dangerous, of course), anything not timing-critical could be controlled regardless if it's supported by the firmware. I mean the hardware PWM. But you can configure it for different frequencies and bit widths and here the webdesign must offer an adequate configuration. Yeah, but that's no rocket science . I assume the web interface is well-designed using reusable program blocks, then it shouldn't be that hard to add a function. Best regards, Sven Schlender Thank you for "dropping by". Bericht bewerkt door eriksl op 21-02-2011 15:14 Bericht bewerkt door eriksl op 21-02-2011 15:15
eriksl 481 berichten Expert	21-02-2011 15:23 BTW I've had a look at the project website, but I still have no clue at what level the webinterface works, I can't find no information on that subject.
svesch 11 berichten Op bezoek	21-02-2011 16:07 Hi, eriksl The problem I am foreseeing is that the software (firmware, as you like) on the networker itself is not able to: control the fysical pins that are not (yet) connected and: control the remote I/O IC's (like I2C en SPI). Controlling of I2C or SPI is already possible due gpio/serial socket. eriksl If the http interface would support (which I doubt) a trick to read/write hardware registers of the MCU (dangerous, of course), anything not timing-critical could be controlled regardless if it's supported by the firmware. This could be possible. Some of the registers may collide with the installed firmware. Bad idea... I have to think about that. eriksl Yeah, but that's no rocket science . If it would be the only thing I have to do... eriksl BTW I've had a look at the project website, but I still have no clue at what level the webinterface works, I can't find no information on that subject. Have a look into the the doxygen documentation in the developers corner. Also you can access a virtual Netzer webinterface here: http://www.mobacon.de/Netzer/CurrentIOWebsite/index.htm Arjen H. I would also be interested in a sample PC application (C# .net) to be able to control the networker(s). I can put some afford on this but I would prefer a more platform independent approach. Also interesting: Which kind of hardware should be controlled by the sample code? Best regards, Sven Schlender